spin stops here we are definitely looking out for you. we may be entering a period in politics that is fact-free where the experience in government is a negative. >> what they are trying to do is paint me as an extremist, so that people won't pay attention to my message. >> what is going on in alaska is providing alaskans a choice. >> people of alaska know they've spoken. now lisa is not playing by the rules. >> it is not a one-way ticket it is a round trip ticket we going to try to get things changed. once they are, i'm ready to go when the moderates can't win they change parties. i don't think the people appreciate that. >> the session is when your -- recession is when your neighbor loses his job. depression is when you lose your job. a recovery is when nancy pelosi loses her job!

>> sean: our countdown to election day is on. in a minute i will be joined boy karl rove. house republicans released a draft document that many of us have been waiting for. they are calling it a pledge to america. it outlines, values, policies and the ideals a republican-led congress will pursue in 2011. tonight we have a sneak peek of some of the key elements. on the economy republicans are vowing to end all job-killing tax hikes. they want to provide small businesses with tax cuts. they vow to stand in the way of excessive federal regulation. they call it washington's red tape factory. they will repeal the 1099 health care requirement on fiscal responsibility and the size of government. gop pledges to cut government spending to prestimulus, prebailout levels. cut congress' budget and end

tarp forever. they take fannie mae and freddie mac out of the hands of government and hold weekly votes on spending cuts. they will repeal and replace the government take over of health care an action they vow to undertake immediately. fear not democrats, the gop have a plan of their own they will allow health care to be purchased across state lines, expand health savings accounts ensure access for preexisting conditions and prohibit taxpayer funding for abortion. on securing america, terrorists will not be imported into the u.s. from gitmo or anywhere else. sanctions against rogue regimes, like iran will be enforced. the obama administration will be held accountable by congress. the government will secure our borders once and for all. immigration laws will be enforced by state and local officials. that includes in arizona. this is just a preview of what is in the document. joining me with analysis the one and only karl rove. welcome back.

>> thanks sean. >> sean: we expected maybe something that was like the contract with america. this is more comprehensive. far more detailed. i want to get your initial reaction to it? >> i like it. it is five baskets, if you will, jobs, spending, health care, reform of washington, defense of america. each one of the 21 pages contains a series of specifically practical suggestions in each area, most of which are already embodied in legislation that could be voted on if congress would take it up. only one thing congress has got to do for the fall campaign fund the government with what is have called a continuing resolution. the republicans have a proposal that says let's return spending to the way it was in 2008 except for soldiers, veterans and seniors and fun the government that would save 100 billion dollars off the top of the budget over a trillion over the next decade and freeze the tax code for the next two years.

if this was brought to the floor of the house of representatives even with minority republicans this would pass there would be support on both sides. >> sean: if you are going to advise candidates, they going to unveil this document tomorrow. we just gave a summary. how should they use this in the campaign? >> i write about this tomorrow in my column for the "wall street journal". the democrats have been maker record after error that means there's a tendancy for the republicans to take their foot off the gas play it safe, run out the clock. now is the time to lay it on strong. the republicans have come this far because of very strong convictions about big issues that face america and deep differences from the democrats. between now and the election 40 days from today, 39 from tomorrow morning, they need to make certain the american people understand with clarity and conviction, what it is they think is wrong and what it is they would do. as you is a good governing

document, 21 pages of a list of practical steps. >> sean: we'll get into this later. democrats aren't running on health care, stimulus. they are using a lot of ad hominem attacks in a lot of the campaigns do you that i -- do you think that is effective strategy? >> individual attacks on individual candidates may in some instances work it depends on how people respond. they've run out of ideas. this was going to be about how well the stimulus was working, health care, strong economy, how many jobs, 500,000 jobs a month, joe biden said. all of these have fallen by the wayside. we are stuck with the president adopting a hyper tone and democrats using nasty words about the tea party and conservatives and republicans this is not going to work. >> sean: last night we had christine o'donnell on.

>> yes you did! >> sean: she answered a lot of questions you wanted answered. there's been a lot of press over your comment on this very program and i asked her about you and your comments. >> well, i think maybe it is hard for them to see how this is possible. again, i hope they come around, because i would like to unite the party. we are going to get out there we've got a winning message. we are right on the issues. just like in my primary debate as my opponent kept attacking me, the voters went wait a minute, what about her positions? it began to backfire. >> sean: that was specifically, i was asking her about you and those that were critical. >> well look, she is still 16 points behind in the fox poll and 15 in the cnn poll. i thought it was a good sign of what she said last night. she right on the issues. coons is wrong on the issues. the question is, will people in delaware pay attention to her? she handled the witchcraft

issue great. she made a couple jokes about it. i thought she did a good job handling the foreclosure issue. in march she told the willing ming -- wilmington news it was a technical error by the bank. last night she was more forthcoming. she failed to pay her mortgage she was working as a pro bono adviser to a fell people might say you should have been earning a salary to pay your bills. at lost she set it in the proper context in the most sympathetic light. before she wasn't willing to deal with these issues. she has hired one of the best in the business to handle it. good sign. she talking to kelly conway to be a pollster, she realizes she has to bring her a game. she made a good point last night, you got to focus on the big issues. she can't get the people to focus on the big issues unless and until she can get by these

personal issues. she had a good witchcraft answer, which was i was young and foolish. her opponent has seized on that to say i was young and foolish when i wrote that's say saying i was a marxist in college. >> sean: a bearded marxist. he efficient >> he understands the difficulty. she dealt with taxes last night. in march she told the newspaper she was puzzled why she had an irs lien. last night she told you they gave me a letter saying it was their mistake. now the press is going to want to see that letter. it begs the question did she owe taxes or not? you can solve a problem if you think i can ignore these things. she is confronting them and i'm convinced that is the only way she will pull the wax out of people's ears in delaware and have them listen to her. >> sean: a lot of pundits, we go back a couple months they weren't predicting barbara boxer was going to be in

trouble. russ feingold down in double digits, west virginia, republican up by three points there. a lot of states that nobody thought was in play are now in play your prediction? >> seven or eight seats in the senate, 37 to 45 in the house, maybe as many as 55, i'm starting to move up on the number between that 37, 45 range. we are reaching a point where the democrats are pulling down their tv in arizona and phoenix congressman mitchell is in deep trouble. they have to cut advertising in places like ohio and pennsylvania where they are falling so far behind it is going to be a waste of resources. we got to keep this battlefield building and ing the republicans do, by making sure they got good candidates and message. looking good. >> sean: does it trouble that lisa murkowski is -- >> yeah. >> sean: castle won't endorse

and charlie crist ran independent? >> crist is going to be beat badly. murkowski is going to embarrass herself. joe miller won fair and square for her to do this now is sad and pathetic end to a political career. i'm confident miller at the end is going to beat. my man marco rubio is going to clean charlie crist's clock. >> sean: marco rubio may be president one day. there's my prediction. karl rove, thanks. >> later terry mcauliffe will be here to layout the democrats' game plan. first, i'll be joined by california senate candidate carly fiorina looking to take down barbara boxer. i'll ask her about that. i'll ask her about that. much mo i was driving in northern california. my son was asleep.

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for exceptional offers through mercedes-benz financial. ♪ . >> sean: as anointed one held court at a cnbc town hall frustration was expressed. >> i want to know is the american dream dead for me? >> sean: did the president's response inspire confidence? >> i unfortunately felt like he did not actually answer my question. >> sean: that speaks for itself. we are back with carly fiorina in 90 seconds.

i saw polls both you and meg whitman, running for governor. it's a dead heat. >> yes. yes. >> why is barbara boxer, nobody really thought barbara boxer would be in trouble. why is she in trouble? >> because the people of california figured out issues this this election are jobs and out of control government spending. barbara boxer's policy, she's an ultraliberal left wing, and destroyed jobs in california never met a spending bill she didn't love unless it's body armor for troops in iraq and afghanistan. that, she voted against. extended family leave for troops. she votes against the military, high taxes and high regulation n california people can see consek kenss -- consequence autos 23 county was unemployment. >> those numbers don't include people that gave up looking for underemployed. the number brings it up to 17% and 18%. it's interesting.

democratic hierarchy, how many times has the president been -- . >> twice, twice. michelle obama is coming out to help a struggling candidate. joe biden has been in. barney frank has been in. and why do you think that -- is that the evidence, all evidence you need she knows she's in trouble with this campaign? i noticed it's now getting personal. i don't see democrats voting for -- campaigning on stimulus cap and tax for the health-care bill. >> barbara boxer went up and down the state of california saying the stimulus bill had worked. only trouble is that unemployment was 10.2%, it's now 12.4% so it failed. but this election is going to be decided in california. and as it is across the nation by swing voters. when you talk to swing voters in california, 78% believe the

nation is headed in the wrong direction. people figured this out. >> i don't know if you saw town hall with barack obama the other day. one guy, just played it. the american dream dead? another woman, who actually interviewed on my radio show, is this our new reality? my husband and i used to joke bit. >> i hear it every day, sean. i met a woman in the tea party. she came up to me after giving a speech. she said i have never voted before. i am voting for you because i'm afraid for my childrens' future. >> sean: every kid in america now, when they're born, 42,000s ndz debt. republicans came up with a pledge to america. >> yes. >> we just went over witness carl rove. >> yes. >> have you had a chance to take a look at the document now? >> i haven't. i listened to your report with carl. i agree with every point. first, they're focused on

jobs. we need to be focused on what it takes to grow jobs. we know what it takes to get the economy back on track and cut government spending. but first, we have to change people we send to washington that. is why i hope people will help me beat barbara boxer. >> sean: there is a big struggle in the republican party highlighted by the election of christine o'donnell. saying establishment versus tea party republicans. you had to describe your political ideology, i identify myself as a conservative. i'm a reagan conservative. >> i describe myself as a practical, common sense conservative. how sara palin describes it. it means that i, look. limited government works better because the people closest to the pron lem know the solution better than folks 3,000 miles away. create the american dream, we have to create jobs in the private sector.

we must do what it takes to make it easier for small-business owners, family owned businesses. they create two-thirds of the new jobs in this country. we don't know how taxpayer money is being spent in washington, d.c.. we have to cut government spending. in the last 12 months, the federal government added 100,000 bureaucrats. while we're dealing with 12.4% unemployment. >> only sector growing is government. >> right. >> we appreciate being here. barbara boxer on the ropes. it's getting interesting. >> karly for california.com. i hope everyone will help me. think what a symbol it would be to defeat barbara boxer. >> russ feingold, all in trouble. >> right. >> karly for california.com. we can use help. >> thank you. >> and coming up what do democrats need to do in order to default, defeat the powerful g.o.p. machine this november? we'll shoot it out. a classic "hannity" shootout.

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tonight the gop has just unveiled a first glimpse at its pledge to america campaign blueprint. house democrats are rushing to discredit the new agenda. democratic leaders who have sent a series of e-mails attacking the document are hoping to use their advantage by arguing that republicans still are not bringing enough to the table. meanwhile, the dnc has launched a new campaign attempting to rebrand the party with a fresh new slogan. change that matters. with republican enthusiasm at an all-time high and a new detailed plan for victory, is

a redesigned logo and tag line enough change to deliver votes for the democrats this november? joining me chairman of green tech automotive terry act auliffe. you have a sports car -- terry mcauliffe. you have a sports car 800 miles. >> new york to chicago. >> sean: no gas. >> that's a hybrid. i have one we launched all electric. >> sean: how many miles per gallon? the sports car. >> 48. >> sean: pretty impressive. >> yeah >> sean: i have a hybrid and people say, if i can save on gas i'm all for it. >> you you will love my electric car company i bought it from china. >> sean: everybody else is going the other way. >> manufacturing in the green space which is the future. >> sean: you and i have not had a great history sometimes. we were at one of the

conventions together. you go don't you touch me >> you kept grabbing my leg! you were all over my leg. >> sean: i wouldn't go near your leg. >> my wife dorothy was a wrmsn%. >> sean: all right. good to see you. listen, you were critical of the president, especially during the gulf oil crisis. rightly so. you said, call everybody from all officer the world we have no pride in this get everybody together. we found out three days after the explosion happened they were offering skimmers from denmark. we shut 'em down. we shutdown help from other countries. howcdq incompetentbtç was that? >> first of all, i don't think no matter who is the president, i'm entitled to make my opinion of things i think we ought to do. i said we ought to make this worldwide. saudi arabia had a huge problem -- >> sean: they kept it from the world. >> but they dealt with it. bring everybody in. it is not being critical. here's what i think we ought

to do. i think everybody is entitle to the make their opinions. i think we ought to be doing more on green energy. we are allowing saudi arabia and china and south korea now to invest millions on electric cars. we to get in the game. there's the jobs of the future. as a nation not democrat, republican, we have got to be creating jobs. you can give me all the tax cuts you want -- >> sean: you just touched me. >> a knuckle different from my leg. >> sean: my knuckle is precious territory. >> we are not creating jobs for our children, -- >> sean: i agree. >> we got to get manufacturing back in this country. you can give all the tax cuts you want if i don't have a product to sell around the world it doesn't make any difference. we got to get our manufacturing green. >> sean: here's the problem, these economic policiesd failing. unemployment at 10%. they said if we spent all that stimulus money unemployment

wouldn't go over 8%. >> it was a dumb statement to make. >> sean: you under promise and over deliver. you are a businessman. >> i would agree >> reporter: they over promised under delivered. more debt for our kids and grandkids. now they want more money. you are a business guy do you know what your capital gains structure is going to be next year? the cost of health care? no. >> i'm in the business where we are going to hire the next 24 months, 3 to five thousand people. i said we need certainty to hire we have three trillion right now in banks, in businesses that are not spending because there's uncertainty. president obama we need go out there on green projects, give the business community certainty. i think a good shake-up of the economic team was warranted. >> sean: don't you think it would be a good idea to extend the bush tax cuts? >> clearly forbes the middle class and others they should

get tax cuts -- >> sean: why not everybody. jumpstart the economy, let the tax cuts continue. >> i would be happy with that if i knew -- you and you are in that top 1%, we've worked hard, started a business, i got four, five tax cuts from bush. you and i probably buy a lot of bonds, i would invest it in training and to build jobs. >> sean: that's what people are going to do. every time we've cut taxes from kennedy to reagan to bush, they worked, lowered unemployment, increased revenues to the government. here's the problem, i think the democrats are headed for a massive electoral defeat. here's the question i have -- >> we will keep the house and senate. >> sean: you are dreaming. how much do you want to bet? >> $1,000 for our favorite charity. >> sean: i'll take $1,000 for the house. the senate is a little more

precarious. $1,000 for the house. >> money you are making -- >> sean: with the money i'm making. [ talking over each other ] >> sean: bill clinton the era of big government is over, end of welfare as we know it. when the house was taken over in '94 he showed an ability to pivot in a more pragmatic side that i think worked for the country. do you see that barack obama has those qualities? >> i do. >> sean: you're dreaming. show me where he's compromised? >> first of all president obama inherited the worst economy -- >> sean: ronald reagan did, stop. >> you guys talked about bill clinton for eight years under george bush. i still got six years to go, fair is fair. >> sean: get over it. >> we've got bills out on small business, manufacturing, green technologies, republicans don't want those. we financial reform we can't go back.

>> sean: he gave us more debt, more deficits, this is his economy, his health care bill. there's going to be a repudiation in 41 days. does he have the ability, like bill clinton to change? >> i think president obama gets out of bed every day saying how do i help that person achieve the american dream. >> sean: that is such a nonanswer. >> listen, you got to understand he inherited this mess. created jobs for eight straight months. george bush inherited 5.6 -- [ talking over each other ] >> i think what he has done on jobs trying to get the green technologies going. >> sean: that's extreme lost agenda. >> you and i disagree on health care we wanted 38 million americans covered. this was a signature issue. democrats get out there and fight for what you passed. [ talking over each other ] >> sean: the era of big government is over, end of welfare as we know it.

two examples where clinton compromised and the country benefited. tell your friend bill i said something nice. >> we are going to keep the house and senate. >> sean: i want to see your sports car. >> it has only been 21 months it took eight years for bush to get us in this mess. >> sean: tell obama to put his pants on sit at the table and man-up and take responsibility. he's blaming bush he needs to blame himself. [ talking over each other ] >> sean: the white house is getting desperate they are unleashing a new force on the campaign trail, we'll tell you who she. >> plus, another key member of the president's economic team announces his departure.

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up to five free nights at any of our properties or double points. >> sean: new force hitting the campaign trail. u.s.a. today reports that first lady michelle obama will swing through six states to campaign for struggling candidates for feingold and boxer. since so few candidates are willing to be seen with the president the white house is turning to michelle for a

helping hand. will it help? straight ahead.

>> sean: another one bites dust on the president's economic team. obama's top economic adviser larry summers leaving at the end of the year. summers is the third high ranking member of obama's economic team to jump ship. he joins rommer and/or zack. while the administration tries to spin the departure our next guest has an economic horror story that the white house would like to sweep under the rug. joining me "new york times" number one best selling author michelle malkin is back. thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me sean. >> sean: you got to figure geithner is next. i gotta figure if you were the architect of one of the worst economic plans in america's history, that you don't want to be part of that history so i'm not surprised his economic

team is leaving. the question is are they leaving on their own or are they being forced out? >> either way there are never consequences for all the bad decisions they've made for all of the decisions they've made that have ended up shafting so many innocent hardworking people who have played by the rules. larry summers gets a wonderful send-off from the obama administration. like rome and orszag he gets to go back into a comfy position in academia or think tanks. -- all of the economic wreckage they have left goes unchallenged. it is time that people stand up and tell the stories that need to be told of the economic hardship and suffering that this administration and this economic team caused. >> sean: we have all the numbers. you highlight one case adelphi, part supplier for gm. you go into great detail this is one of many stories.

we've heard from a lot of companies what they are saying financially the impact it going to be on their business just the health care mandate len. explain what you found in your research? >> i first mention add delphi on your a month ago. i've gotten hundreds and hundreds of -- letters from people with heart wren ing -- heartwrenching stories the loss of health care, life insurance benefits and the manner which is class fix chicago-style politics in which -- in which the white house auto task force trerbgs department and the united auto workers cut backroom deals to make sure union workers for adelphi were fully covered made whole on their pensions, -- at the same time salaried retiree counterparts people who worked as secretaries, engineers, designers, salespeople who dedicated decades of their lives to gm and to delphi were

skewed in the deal. they lost 30 to 70% of pensions. the auto task force people knew this was wrong. they have now been sued in federal court by the delphi salaried retired association. the inspector general who looks over tarp funds, has now launched a probe to investigate whether or not there was politicalization, rank politicalization involved in these decisions. clearly it was. look, here's the words of steve ratner the former auto czar who says, attacking union's sacred cow meaning the pensions, was something that would have jeopardized the whole agreement. the whole union-white house deal that was a taxpayer funded laundry machine. they used our funds. nows go what? gm is using those funds to refill the coffers of democrat party.

>> sean: foreclosures now sadly up 25% from a year ago. i know the media doing the work of the obama administration spreading an election is telling us the recession soefr. unemployment still at 9.6%. -- u.s. home prices dropped 3.3% in july. the 8th consecutive decline. cbo telling us unemployment will stay above 8% through 2012. job picture has gotten worse in 27 states. 1 in 7 americans in poverty in this country now. they are saying this is a success? how do they sell that in this election year? >> by the president becoming more personal. you have seen this over the last week. the strategists are turning him back into the storyteller in chief. just today for example, he was in a backyard in some virginia family's home talking about how he cares. how he cares. and you know what, it is time for people to say to hell you

do and tell their stories. it is not just the delphi work have been harmed. of course all of the folks in louisiana and in the gulf coast whose jobs have been put in jeopardy because of the junk science drilling moratorium. all the folks in the west that i've talked to about sean, who have been subjected to a war on the west. it is all the people in the small businesses who are going to be hit by the bush tax cut expiration and all of those increases. it is time for them to tell their stories and counter the white house who pretend they don't exist. >> sean: great work. michelle malkin appreciate you being with us. >> let not your heart be troubled our great, great american panel, straight ahead. boss: and now i'll turn it over to the gecko.

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>> sean: tonight on our great american panel. he's a fox news contributor and author of the promise. father jonathan morris is here. he has worked at the "washington post", white house correspondent, juan williams is back. she is a radio talk show host mary walter is back. glad to see all of you. thanks for being here. sore loser syndrome. lisa murkowski, charlie crist, mike castle, sore loser. i'm a little us from traited by this. >> republicans! -- >> sean: he's all years, voted out by the democrats. >> so the pattern is republicans are often sore losers? >> sean: i'm saying in this year in this case, something we don't see that often. >> i don't think it has anything to do with democrat

or republican. i think it is power taken away from people who live on power. this drives them. they can't deal with it. >> sean: isn't this ego, pride, the fall of man? somehow they think this is an entitlement in is not the i'm's seat it is their seat? >> as soon as we think political decisions are about us. as soon as we think economic decisions are all about us. instead of thinking that every political and economic decision has a moral and ethical dimension,g=crd includig whether or not we have power or don't, we are totally lost. that's what is real leadership is about >> sean: i can count on your conservative vote this year? >> sean you know i would never tell you who i would vote for. >> sean: that's the problem. a lot of pundits don't have the courage ear that's a different story. there is infighting within the democratic ranks, juan. nobody wants to be seen, few people want to be seen with obama, reid, pelosi. not running on health care,

stimulus, cap and tax. democrats have their own problems. >> especially the health care thing. >> sean: especially that failed stimulus thing. that failed economy thing r >> the failed stimulus thing has saved us from a 16% unemployment rate accordingsz0ro economists working for republicans. >> sean: what economists? who, what is his name? cbo just told us we are going to have unemployment up to 2012 above 8%. >> that's right. they say it is a matter of millions of jobs added by the stimulus. here's the thing i concede the point if your point is the american people in terms of polling don't give the stimulus credit. i don't understand why, but that's a fact. >> sean: because we are bankrupt and have nothing to show for it -- >> in the midst of a great depression would be better? >> sean: this is speculation like pulling numbers out of the air. we saved 60 billion jobs. >> didn't the cbo said it cost $187,000 to create each job.

in the private sector $50,000 it doesn't make sense. >> if you were president of a country in the midst of a terrible recession, let's do nothing. >> sean: no. don't fall into his trap. the answer is, you would do what reagan did who inherited a far worse economy than obama. would you lower the tax rates in his case from 7 toe 28% revenues doubled. >> what was -- what was the deficit? >> sean: you had a liberal congress, tip o'neil to deal with. >> we cannot get off the fact it is so amazing the democrats in this case are not campaigning for having done wonderful, ethical, moral things with health care. the american people realize there has been a major, major mistake made with this health care. if we can't afford it and if

money is going and we've seen this happening to actual to abortion, without a doubt if states don't stop it and so many other things -- [ talking over each other ] >> a minute ago you said that every decision that the people in power make has a dimension of morality . how can you sit here and say that a program that allows us to cover all americans, that no child in the street would be [ talking over each other ] >> because there is a responsibility of society to make sure health care is given. therefore, the government demands whatever they want. >> sean: more with our great, great american panel, right after this aren't you sick of these airline credit cards that advertise flights for 25,000 miles? but when you call... let me check. oh fud, nothing without a big miles upcharge. it's either pay their miles upcharges or connect through mooseneck! [ freezing ] i can't feel my feet.

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. >> sean: we continue with our great american panel. bob woodward has a new book about barack obama he's had incredible access. some of the things we take out of this. president obama on the record we can absorb another terrorist attack? he talked about -- he said a withdrawal timeline in afghanistan, i can't lose the whole democratic party this is about him, not about our brave men and women out in the field that are out there fighting? >> talk about spin. let's take it one at a time. let's take the spin if i said to you mission is a strong country and we can take a punch. you would say that is pride in america. you interpret it as weakness. >> i would never give a homily to people who lost their loved ones and say, listen, you know what, you are going to be able to get through this time, just don't worry about it. we are going to be stronger, because of it.

>> you are their minister. he's their president. he's our leader. >> we should be talking -- we shouldn't be talking about willing to absorb another hit. >> he said we are going to do everything we can to prevent it. >> i agree with juan on this. >> sean: wait a minute. he should be it. there's a certain fatalism as liz cheney pointed out. when they asked what the goal is, he's not talking about victory. i'm sleeping in a tent with one eye open asked to risk my life everyday i want to know i'm going to be victorious. >> that his job as commander in chief to lead to lead these guys to victory. >> sean: why is this about him? >> this is about the american people. the american people do not support the wars. i'm sad to say i support the troops. we sent those young people out there. >> sean: if that's the case, if he's not in to win this.

if he's setting up a tame table -- timetable and doesn't care what the result is we ought to pull out now! >> he's got a different vision. his vision is we have to stop terrorists from breeding and coming here -- [ talking over each other ] >> what did churchill do in order to fight the germans? he got the english people on his side, by explaining to them why that war was worth winning. and so, it is not just a question of saying, hey listen we are in tough times now [ talking over each other ] >> we have to rally the people to say this is [ talking over each other ] >> you keep talking about winning, winning. it is not about winning. it is about defeating al-qaeda -- you can't defeat them for all time. you have got to push them back.

>> sean: it is morally right just and just defeat evil in our time jihadist that want to kill, slaughter innocent people? >> it doesn't mean you can do it however you want. there are so many complicated issues you have to say right now given the situation is this the best way to do it? i think that's for the politicians to decide, not for know decide. if they are going to put our men and women at risk, they have to get the american people behind it. >> our country has been through so much. no weapons of mass destruction. we go to war for wrong reasons. >> we have to be in this to win it. father with all respect when you talk about politicians thinking of the moral way to do something. they are the last people i'm looking to for morality. if we want to win, we want to win. >> it is a modern war where you are fighting --